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NextInsight :: SGX Stocks |
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
12-02-2013
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| Big Fish |
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| Fresh Boarder |
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Joined: 12-02-2013
Posts: 3
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This laddy sometimes gets it right, sometimes he gets it wrong. I never quite listen to brazen predictions on stock prices simply because they are more likely to reflect vested interest than any acute ability at business analysis.
Below is an example. Taisan ticket to 16.5 cents? Right now, 8 months after the post below, Taisan is at 5.9 cents. Hahaha
[cheongwee 19-06-2012]:
chinaTaisan, your ticket to 16.5c.
If you still cannot see the bull horn tip, and end up catching the tail , u will be the one to hold till 2016. or may be worst 2019.
winter is long and cold.
dow 14400 will be the last kiss goodbye.
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Last Edited On: 12-02-2013 By Big Fish for the Reason |
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
05-07-2012
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| cheongwee |
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S-chip will soar toward the end of this rally hopefully, they will be play.
I am hopeful, why? rotational play will follow, what else??
I have acc foreland and qingmei and 3 more.
Never say dies still they rise.
[Jane 05-07-2012]:
Enough bashing of S-chips. There are many good ones --- Foreland Fabritech, Eratat Lifestyle, Yangzijiang Ship, Sino Grandness, etc.
S-chips, your turn to rise! China’s central bank has just given a sweet surprise for S-chips. A cut in iinterest rate, which lowers borrowing and deposit rates.
Central bank also enabling banks greater leeway in setting their own lending rates at a discount to the benchmark.
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
05-07-2012
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| Guest |
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No matter how much stimulus China puts. S-chips will be marginalised due to the many fraud cases in this sector.
The best push will be a change in China's regulation where S-Chip owners can be criminally liable by the country they list in. And China is committed in the repritation of them to that country |
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Subject :Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
05-07-2012
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| Jane |
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Enough bashing of S-chips. There are many good ones --- Foreland Fabritech, Eratat Lifestyle, Yangzijiang Ship, Sino Grandness, etc.
S-chips, your turn to rise! China’s central bank has just given a sweet surprise for S-chips. A cut in iinterest rate, which lowers borrowing and deposit rates.
Central bank also enabling banks greater leeway in setting their own lending rates at a discount to the benchmark. |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
23-06-2012
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| MacGyver |
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| Platinum Boarder |
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Joined: 19-07-2007
Posts: 462
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Welcome to China.
Banks in China have very different ways of treating cash. They issue 票据 on the back of cash deposits to companies who need confirmation of their cash levels. These companies bring the 票据 to another bank to ask for more cash confirmation. The whole cycle can take many twists and turns.
The way PRC companies play their P&L is also very similar to how several Singapore companies twist their accounts. Receivables are jack up to push profits while cash flows are managed with fund raising exercises subsequently.
If you don't want to do your homework and learn the market, the easy way is just to buy blue-chip stocks and REITs. Having said that, I think REITs becoming increasingly risky.
There are financial engineering coming into some of the recent REITs transactions. Do take note.
Cheers! |
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Last Edited On: 23-06-2012 By MacGyver for the Reason |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
23-06-2012
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| Guest |
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Banks in china provide a lot of creative services .
One my friends have a few million rmb cash in one bank . During last few days of the month, his bank will ask him to invest the money into a special invest product. In return, he earns addtional 1% for the period of 7 days. Now i know why they need his money. |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
23-06-2012
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| Serendipity |
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Hmmm... i tot bank confirmation letter is something along the lines of "how much money is in this account as at 31 December 2011"?
Since the specific date is required, in that case, how can a sum of money be in two separate places at one time?
Still confused...
[shArk 21-06-2012]:
the same sum of money can be transferred between different bank accounts for the purpose of showing a particular quantum on the bank statement. $50m can be shared between 3 or 4 companies as cash reserves!!!
Co A cash reserve of $50m + Co B cash reserve of $50m + Co C cash reserve of $50m = $50m deposits in the bank (not $150m)
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
21-06-2012
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| shArk |
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| Junior Boarder |
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Joined: 06-01-2012
Posts: 25
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the same sum of money can be transferred between different bank accounts for the purpose of showing a particular quantum on the bank statement. $50m can be shared between 3 or 4 companies as cash reserves!!!
Co A cash reserve of $50m + Co B cash reserve of $50m + Co C cash reserve of $50m = $50m deposits in the bank (not $150m) |
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Last Edited On: 21-06-2012 By shArk for the Reason |
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
20-06-2012
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| Serendipity |
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The point in using net cash per share is that it tells you the stock is at a very cheap valuation. So cheap such that it warrants a closer look.
Eg. if the company runs into any problems, no biggie, cos the risk is already priced in. Market is expecting its performance to be lousy so the price won't move much. Meanwhile, there's plenty of upside potential, so if anything good happen(eg. management is honest, the cash is real, sudden growth in quarterly profits, management announce special dividend, etc.), the price can go up signficantly. At a cheap enough valuation, you don't have to achieve 100% batting average. Plenty of risk is already priced inside, and there's plenty of room for good things to happen.
On another note, I'm also puzzled by how S-chips fake their cash. Typically, won't the auditors require bank confirmation letter for their audit? So shouldn't cash be one of the most difficult items to fake(as opposed to say, liabilities)? Can anyone here shed light on this issue?
[Guest 19-06-2012]:
You can't take the cash at face value. Isn't the entire S-chips risk mainly talks about fake cash? So what's the point in using net cash per share as the anchoring point for your investment thesis?
No doubt, in a bull markets, such S-chips may rise like crazy.. as evident in the 1Q trading of this year but unless you are 80-90% convinced that the cash is real, such investment is nothing more than just executing the "Greater Fool" theory.
Somewhere along this thread or others, I read people saying Lumiere is vested in Eratat, so that got to be safe. But the question is are they STILL vested in Eratat? How much of their portfolio is vested in Eratat? It could be 0.5% but you are waging 20% of your portfolio. Also, it doesn't mean they are vested in Eratat means it is safe. This is the issue & cost of free ridership or not doing your homework. Is their batting average 100%? What happens if it is so unlikely you hit their failed buys?
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Subject :Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
19-06-2012
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| Guest |
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You can't take the cash at face value. Isn't the entire S-chips risk mainly talks about fake cash? So what's the point in using net cash per share as the anchoring point for your investment thesis?
No doubt, in a bull markets, such S-chips may rise like crazy.. as evident in the 1Q trading of this year but unless you are 80-90% convinced that the cash is real, such investment is nothing more than just executing the "Greater Fool" theory.
Somewhere along this thread or others, I read people saying Lumiere is vested in Eratat, so that got to be safe. But the question is are they STILL vested in Eratat? How much of their portfolio is vested in Eratat? It could be 0.5% but you are waging 20% of your portfolio. Also, it doesn't mean they are vested in Eratat means it is safe. This is the issue & cost of free ridership or not doing your homework. Is their batting average 100%? What happens if it is so unlikely you hit their failed buys? |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
19-06-2012
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| cheongwee |
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chinataisan maybe the very first, but the reat will follow up with the next 2 months i hope so.
and all yours memetion are good , acc them, foreland ,qingmei, chinaNtown, sapphire, just concentrate on a few, dont. over do it, want to cut also easy.
and last, what is share here are all risky stock, so pls do your due diligent.
[Serendipity 18-06-2012]:
So which would you consider to be the other "good, reliable penny" at SGX. Valuation-wise, these stocks are now dirt cheap, as in Depression-era cheap. I'm not very optimistic on ChinaFibre because of its management, but Qingmei, Foreland and Eratat all look to be quite good. These counters are trading at PEs of less than 2. P/NTA is less than 0.5. All have huge cash hoards and zero debt. At the low prices, bad news seem to have been sufficiently priced into the stocks.
I personally am more biased towards Foreland and Eratat. Foreland has been increasing its earnings quarter-to-quarter when other fabric companies have seen their profits shrunk. This speaks a lot about its competitive position in the industry. Besides, Foreland has been operating at peak capacity for some time. Once they finish building their new factory, it's highly likely that earnings will continue to grow as they no longer have to turn away orders. A further positive point is that the company has a history of paying dividends when results are good.
Eratat suffers from the problem of having high trade receivables, and that recent quarterly profits has declined. However, from the past reports, managment has explained that it is making a shift towards higher-margin apparel as opposed to footwear over the past few years. Changes in product mix has shown this to be true. The shift to higher-margin apparel may prove to be a shrewd move, as several footwear manufacturers are now struggling(eg. even Qingmei) because of oversupply in the industry. Meanwhile, Eratat has been increasing its ASP over the years. As for the trade receivables, even if it turns out that a large part of the receivables are uncollectible, the company, which is now trading at less than net cash, should still be worth more than current valuation. If it turns out that management is honest and the transition period is complete(particularly after granting renovation subsidy in the second quarter) with no more surprises, there may be strong upswing in the stock.
I haven't really looked at Qingmei in-depth, but a quick glance seems to indicate that management doesn't seem to have anticipated the oversupply in the industry, so their competency may be suspect. Nonetheless, until recently, earnings over the years have been good. The stock seems promising now because of the cheap valuation, with large cash hoard and zero debt. There's room for good things to happen, such as an unexpectedly positive earnings report, or a good dividend payout.
Guys, do share what are the other stocks that you think are cheap and good buys. I'm interested to know as well 
[Guest 17-06-2012]:
If you are bitten by shake, anything that look like snake you will be scare. so many s-chip gone with invester money, who dare to risk. And we are spoilt for choices with so many good reliable penny at SGX, so why take the risk??? But soon, they will be in play, your chance to get out, but to get out at the high price u bought will be wish, and for u a hope. but i think fat hope. Use this to get out and put that money to work eslewhere. Don't hope against hope.
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
19-06-2012
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| Guest |
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all your s are good for the run. acc them . |
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Subject :Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
19-06-2012
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| cheongwee |
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chinaTaisan, your ticket to 16.5c.
If you still cannot see the bull horn tip, and end up catching the tail , u will be the one to hold till 2016. or may be worst 2019.
winter is long and cold.
dow 14400 will be the last kiss goodbye. |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
19-06-2012
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| Guest |
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So cheap meh. |
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
18-06-2012
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| Serendipity |
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So which would you consider to be the other "good, reliable penny" at SGX. Valuation-wise, these stocks are now dirt cheap, as in Depression-era cheap. I'm not very optimistic on ChinaFibre because of its management, but Qingmei, Foreland and Eratat all look to be quite good. These counters are trading at PEs of less than 2. P/NTA is less than 0.5. All have huge cash hoards and zero debt. At the low prices, bad news seem to have been sufficiently priced into the stocks.
I personally am more biased towards Foreland and Eratat. Foreland has been increasing its earnings quarter-to-quarter when other fabric companies have seen their profits shrunk. This speaks a lot about its competitive position in the industry. Besides, Foreland has been operating at peak capacity for some time. Once they finish building their new factory, it's highly likely that earnings will continue to grow as they no longer have to turn away orders. A further positive point is that the company has a history of paying dividends when results are good.
Eratat suffers from the problem of having high trade receivables, and that recent quarterly profits has declined. However, from the past reports, managment has explained that it is making a shift towards higher-margin apparel as opposed to footwear over the past few years. Changes in product mix has shown this to be true. The shift to higher-margin apparel may prove to be a shrewd move, as several footwear manufacturers are now struggling(eg. even Qingmei) because of oversupply in the industry. Meanwhile, Eratat has been increasing its ASP over the years. As for the trade receivables, even if it turns out that a large part of the receivables are uncollectible, the company, which is now trading at less than net cash, should still be worth more than current valuation. If it turns out that management is honest and the transition period is complete(particularly after granting renovation subsidy in the second quarter) with no more surprises, there may be strong upswing in the stock.
I haven't really looked at Qingmei in-depth, but a quick glance seems to indicate that management doesn't seem to have anticipated the oversupply in the industry, so their competency may be suspect. Nonetheless, until recently, earnings over the years have been good. The stock seems promising now because of the cheap valuation, with large cash hoard and zero debt. There's room for good things to happen, such as an unexpectedly positive earnings report, or a good dividend payout.
Guys, do share what are the other stocks that you think are cheap and good buys. I'm interested to know as well 
[Guest 17-06-2012]:
If you are bitten by shake, anything that look like snake you will be scare. so many s-chip gone with invester money, who dare to risk. And we are spoilt for choices with so many good reliable penny at SGX, so why take the risk??? But soon, they will be in play, your chance to get out, but to get out at the high price u bought will be wish, and for u a hope. but i think fat hope. Use this to get out and put that money to work eslewhere. Don't hope against hope.
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
18-06-2012
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Subject :Re:Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
17-06-2012
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| Guest |
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Hope Greece choose pro, if not then a huge part of the profit make last wk rally will be lost, but i will go short if mkt really come down heavily.
But either way, it is not going to be a 2 to 3 days event. Get ready.
see breaking news on CNBC. Our election also i dont bother, but this one whole world are watching. |
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Subject :Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
17-06-2012
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| cheongwee |
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Just now, i did not look properly, but all those u list here are co-incidentally potential chip, that would be in play.
[Serendipity 17-06-2012]:
Several of them seem to be soooo undervalued...
China Fibretech has net cash value of 0.166. The price now is 0.03.
Qingmei has net cash value of 0.099. The price now is 0.074.
Eratat Lifestyle has net cash value of 0.108. The price now is 0.094.
Foreland Fabrictech has net cash value of 0.061. The price now is 0.081.
In addition, it's not as if these companies have been suffering severe losses. All of them are profitable businesses. What's the deal with these companies? Is it because of the textile industry, or because they are S-chips?
Please enlighten. Thanks
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Subject :Re:What's the story behind S-chips?..
17-06-2012
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| Guest |
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If you are bitten by shake, anything that look like snake you will be scare.
so many s-chip gone with invester money, who dare to risk.
And we are spoilt for choices with so many good reliable penny at SGX, so why take the risk???
But soon, they will be in play, your chance to get out, but to get out at the high price u bought will be wish, and for u a hope. but i think fat hope.
Use this to get out and put that money to work eslewhere. Don't hope against hope. |
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Subject :What's the story behind S-chips?..
17-06-2012
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| Serendipity |
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Several of them seem to be soooo undervalued...
China Fibretech has net cash value of 0.166. The price now is 0.03.
Qingmei has net cash value of 0.099. The price now is 0.074.
Eratat Lifestyle has net cash value of 0.108. The price now is 0.094.
Foreland Fabrictech has net cash value of 0.061. The price now is 0.081.
In addition, it's not as if these companies have been suffering severe losses. All of them are profitable businesses. What's the deal with these companies? Is it because of the textile industry, or because they are S-chips?
Please enlighten. Thanks |
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